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WHAT IS SIN?
I’m not going to answer this question.
First I want to hear what you think.
With so many Christian “brands” out there, each of which has a different “take” on sin, it’s pretty hard to know how to feel and what to think when we’re in that grey area between virtue and depravity.
Roman Catholics talk about mortal sins (felonies) and venial sins (misdemeanors). Before you dismiss it out of hand, it does make some sense to treat axe murders differently than those who just make unintentional little mistakes.
We just plain ignore (no matter what our Christian/Jewish flavor) most of the sins listed in the Bible. We skateboard over the Sabbath and pick and choose what we want to follow.
There are “sins” (and everyone would disagree as to what’s on the list) and then there is “sin” as in the “human condition” of brokenness.
I was on the chairlift talking about Romans 6:23 and a young woman floored me by saying “I’ve done some wrong things but nothing to deserve a death penalty!” I had no answer for her. Isn’t she, in a sense, right?
Do we really deserve death? And what does that even mean?
Isn’t the human condition just a wee bit more complex than “total depravity?”
Some see the central sin as “idolatry” or putting something in the place of God. There is some promise in this thinking, but I can’t really wrap my head around it yet.
Laying our theologies aside, what does God think of sin?
And if what Jesus did on the cross got rid of it, then why are we still talking about it?
Did it make any difference in the human race, objectively speaking?
It seems like we are /exactly/ in the same human condition before and after saying yes to Jesus.
What does it mean to be free of sin? Does trusting Jesus’ work on the cross at a deep level guarantee any change in our behavior?
Try to answer for yourself, and not to please a former pastor or professor who may not even be alive anymore.
I hold conventional conservative Evangelical views on sin, but am trying to think of old truths in fresh ways. Perhaps you can help.
What is sin?
David Housholder Essays 
73 comments
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March 17, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Nathan Hoff
In regards to those petty, everyday, ordinary sins: It is hard to imagine my petty self-orientated attitudes, actions, inactions fitting very well with God’s purposes. My self-orientation and even “petty” idolatries isolate me from others and from the glory of God. I really have fallen short of the glory of God, and have really missed the destiny mark that God created me for. So I need a radical Godward reorientation (repentance). I really need Jesus to rescue me from myself. He does this by sending a messenger bearing a message from heaven, “You have gone far, but i have found you, and have good news. I love you with an unending sacrificial love. You don’t have to prove yourself, you don’t have to promote yourself, You are mine, and I am yours!”
March 17, 2010 at 11:44 pm
Michael Foster
sin=ursurping the role of God: not allowing God the joy of being God – yes it does exist.
March 18, 2010 at 2:52 pm
David Housholder
Great sound bite, Michael
March 19, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Michael Foster
if we want ‘sin’ in terms of language the folks out of the pews can understand: The priorities of the world are fXXked up. The factors that seem to govern the world/society/cosmos/world-view in which we live are selfishness, greed, taking care of ‘me and mine’ – the thought of doing something (anything) for someone who didn’t at least a little bit deserve it – is virtually unheard of. The thought of doing something (anything) that’s not gonna somehow (whether directly or indirectly) benefit me or my particular world-view is unheard of.
People outside the confines of the 4 walls we call ‘church’ know this – they see it – they live it.
Those of us on the inside of these 4 walls we call ‘church’ think we share the good news by lifting up and pointing this reality out. I think the unspoken response people outside the church want to say is “the world’s messed up? yeah, tell us something we don’t know.” But we (those inside the 4walls) continue trying to pull the splinter out of our brothers and sisters eye.
I don’t get out into other pulpits much, but conversing with other local pastors – the societal issues they touch on, the hot button issues of the day they deal to their congregants – (homosexuality, abortion) are ills they see outside their church – not something that’s inside and they feel they have to fight to keep it from every coming inside their church.
They seem so afraid of these ‘worldly’ issues from darkening their doors, but my question to these pastors is – what are the ills your folk are ‘actually’ dealing with (or not dealing with) inside your congregation. How do you (we) as pastor speak directly about greed, about lack of compassion, about abusive relationships among, between congregants and family members, how do they spend quality time praying, resting (sabbath), how do they joyfully return to God from the abundance (or mediocre surplus – or scant resources) with those who have little or no resources? But we on the inside of the 4 walls called ‘church’ seem more interested in picking what we’ve judged to be the splinter in society’s eye – while the log of our jealousy, fear, our inability to actually trust God to provide, our inability to be joyful in the service to which we’ve been called, our presumption that blessings is a direct correlation to wealth and power.
those outside the 4 walls we call church know this, they see it- they’re down with the reality in which they live – what they want is a little good news. they want to know that someone cares (God cares), they need to hear that the circumstances in which they currently find themselves do not define who they are in the sight of God (or of the Church) they’r aching to not simply hear, but to see, to witness and experience forgiveness. But what do the residence of the 4walls we call church offer?? Do we truly believe in the product we’re supposedly selling? Do we live our lives like we believe it?
This is where the systemic sin of the church is real for me.
March 18, 2010 at 12:04 am
Jay Egenes
Great question.
Here are two initial thoughts:
1. Lutherans do sometimes talk about sin as “being turned in on yourself.” Here’s an example I’ve used to make some sense out of that phrase in real life. Give yourself a hug. Wrap both arms tightly around yourself. Don’t let go. Now, without letting go, try to hug somebody else. You can’t do it. If you’re all wrapped up in yourself, you can’t hug somebody else. If you care too much about yourself, you can’t care for somebody else. That failure (or inability) to really care about someone else is sin.
2. Lutherans think about sin as a condition–not just a list of things you shouldn’t do, or for that matter things you should do but don’t. To the extent that our culture buys into sin at all, it’s a list of stuff you should and shouldn’t do. One of the challenges for Lutherans in doing evangelism (see your prior post) is getting past this different way of thinking and communicating what we mean theologically by sin–without getting caught up in language that only “church people” know or understand. I’m afraid I’m not nearly as good at that as I’d like to be.
March 18, 2010 at 2:53 pm
David Housholder
Jay, we are on dual tracks with the culture. Our in house talk about sin means almost nothing to people on the outside.
March 18, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Jay Egenes
I agree. Way too much of what we say about sin (and several other things) only makes sense to someone who already speaks “church.” And much of it is in dialect that only makes sense within a particular sub-tradition of the church. The sub-traditions may or may not follow denominational lines.
How do we be better at translating “Lutheran” or “church” into English?
March 19, 2010 at 3:39 am
lily
i am with jay in that i see gods power as like a magnet, but it emanates outwards, not what sucks you in..getting you stuck and trapped… you need to care about others….it free’s you and that’s exactly what jesus did. he was sinless…John 1:5 “The light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
March 18, 2010 at 1:28 am
JACK AAMOT
I SEE SIN AS ANYTHING AND ALL THAT I AM, DO,SAY, FEEL, THAT IS SHORT OF,OR BEYOND GOD’S PLAN AND DESIRE FOR MY LIFE. JESUS SAID “DENY YOURSELF” – MISSING THE MARK – THE MARK BEING GOD’S PLAN AND WILL FOR MY LIFE – I SEE DEATH (AS A PENALTY FOR SIN) AS SEPARATION FROM A HOLY GOD – SORT OF AUTOMATIC CONSEQUENCE OF MY BEING LESS THAN HOLY – I SIN AND AM A SINNER.
March 18, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Justin Wise
Jack – Your caps are on.
March 19, 2010 at 2:05 am
JACK AAMOT
THEY ALWAYS ARE ON – I LIVE IN CAPS – THANX
March 18, 2010 at 1:29 am
St. Rodney
Is there a such thing as sin? Yes.
Up front, I believe that the Bible is very clear and concrete on what is a sin. This is unwavering, and non negotiable, if you are a Christian. The only thing that can save us from eternal damnation (no matter how small the sin) is God. He is the creator of the game and the ref., his rules (all sin is equal), his definition , his punishment (second death). He put a safe clause, a get out of jail free card, in the game. He wanted to show us how favorable his grace truly is. He provided himself as a perfect, and sinless human. We murdered him, and God in all his mercy used it to promote “a new deal”, forgiveness no matter how bad the sin. There are stipulations though, true repentance.
Laying our theologies aside, what does God think of sin?
The definition of theology is, the study of God and his divinity. Laying that aside I guess I cant answer for God or even what I think he might think. That would be using theology.
And if what Jesus did on the cross got rid of it, then why are we still talking about it? We want our cake and to eat it too. We as humans want to be selfish, and enjoy carnal pleasures. We as humans hate to admit we were wrong or did a bad thing. Sooo we will for ever try to find a loop hole in the rules. Or just deny the existence of God and his rules (denial) when they don’t let us do what we want to.
Did it make any difference in the human race, objectively speaking?
Yes, billions of followers who try to fallow the rules, and moral code.
It seems like we are /exactly/ in the same human condition before and after saying yes to Jesus.
You didn’t feel that tremendous weight lifted off your shoulders, like you just answered a test question right?
What does it mean to be free of sin? Does trusting Jesus’ work on the cross at a deep level guarantee any change in our behavior?
The only guarantee is that we will always have a choice, and death. I though will have faith.
March 18, 2010 at 2:55 pm
David Housholder
How do you answer the woman on the chairlift who doesn’t believe she deserves eternal damnation? A rebuke, maybe, but not eternal flames.
March 23, 2010 at 3:09 am
St. Rodney
She is probably right. But, I wouldn’t doubt it if she had done some things that put a smudge on her life. All God is trying to do is help you have a clean life……………..Shredder Translation:—————————————
Its like, ya no…… some times when you are all cought up in the moment, heshin’ some gnar in the back country, and you hit a rock. What do you do now that your favorit ride has a nasty base gouge….. You take it home give it alittle TLC, some P tecs, and wax. Good as New! Well when your out livin’ life; remember, if you screw up and give your life a nasty gouge, take your self home God will provide the TLC, The P tecs is his forgiveness, and realizing that Jesus died so that I don’t have to is the wax that makes the shred so much sweeter.
Enjoy the POW. Bro!
March 18, 2010 at 1:32 am
St. Rodney
what do you think? Just for got to check fallow-up coments. ; )
March 18, 2010 at 2:29 am
Lisa Kuznia
Yes sin exists because I live in it all the time! I pray all day long to try to stay on course,because sin can have such an appeal!
March 23, 2010 at 8:24 pm
vicarbill
Wow! Luv the tellin it plain response… only beef is that there’s no need to take yourself home, God meets us in all tha gnar @home or when/whereva we screw up + give/get those nasty gouges.
March 18, 2010 at 3:01 am
December Long
Sin, yep it exists. I’m living proof. Even though I logically know God’s way is better and that I’m on a track that ultimately hurts me and God’s heart I sometimes believe that God is not as trustworthy as I am. Boy am I always wrong when I think like that – and more and more I can see it. I think that way at times, but it’s part of the brokeness in me that’s getting better with the renewing of my mind. Sin just has a really attractive quality about it (deception does that) – but, it never ever delivers the authentic article. Sin, a crappy and destructive product with a really good marketing campaign and prodigious distribution.
As to gradation of sin – It may be helpful to remember that we live in a fallen world, and our lives and relationships with God, ourselves, nature and others are broken as a result of sin. We never enter a world or life of any other kind initially. In light of that, we may not have a really good ability to understand how sinful sin is. Just as we can’t really wrap our head around how perfect our perfect God is. Dark dark place this Earth, and we see so darkly too. Since God’s holiness is the standard, I have to imagine then even little teeny sin is monstrous. It takes my imagination because I only have glimpses of God’s glory now. But, even those glimpses tell me I don’t know the half of it.
The question of axe murderer’s being treated differently than those making absent minded mistakes – if we are talking purely about what is God’s view of this – if any sin is intollerable to God and separates you completely from Him (which it does, otherwise we would not need Jesus and would have a small sin grade system), then I’d say every sin (even forgetful things) are a pretty big deal in His eyes. After all, even little sins required God blood.
But, the good news is that, yes, you can be free from sin in Christ permanently. And, though believers may still have sin in their lives on Earth at some level until the day they die – that does not mean that every day does not contain the potential for a higher level of freedom from it. Eternity is a long long time and our blip of a life here in light of that may mean that at some point we won’t even remember what sin looked like let alone be dealing with it anymore. I think that’s Jesus goal – to get our mind’s off sin and on who we are – His Righteousness.
March 18, 2010 at 11:03 am
Kim Baffa
The root of the word sin is Greek for missing the mark. It was originally used in archery. We call it sin when we miss the target. I read somewhere that someone asked what they could do to get to heaven. Reply was: Be Perfect. My God is perfect, and expects to be surrounded by perfection. I certainly can’t pull that off, so I have the justifying blood of Jesus to cover me. His perfection covers me, so when the Father looks at me, He sees His Son. Pretty cool, don’t ya think? Yeah, our world is sinful, but our eternity doesn’t have to be!
March 18, 2010 at 2:56 pm
David Housholder
How does that blood cover us and what does that mean in our practical lives?
March 19, 2010 at 11:18 am
Kim Baffa
The blood covers my sin, if I have repented and confessed. In my daily life, I must be a witness, a mini-Jesus, living out His love. The greatest compliment to a Christian is that there’s something different about you, and that would be Christ in us.
March 18, 2010 at 11:23 am
Mark Strandjord
For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, eagerness for lustful pleasure, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you and make you unacceptable to God.” Mark 7:21-23
Sin is missing the mark of God’s standard for living. It comes in many shapes and forms. Praise Jesus for sending us Holy Spirit so that now we have power to overcome all sin.
March 18, 2010 at 2:57 pm
David Housholder
Do those things keep coming from inside if the Holy Spirit fills us?
March 18, 2010 at 1:46 pm
colorless.blue.ideas
Some wag once stated that the doctrine of Original Sin (or of a fallen human nature) was the only Christian doctrine that had been scientifically established.
One can read the news stories and look at headlines about murders, robberies (hardly makes the news any more), rapes, and all, but one can see a whole range of other problems of people harming other people, or of people looking out for themselves alone, or, in general, of an overall aura of malaise.
That’s a manifestation of what Christians call “sin”.
I think that with most people, until they have consciously accepted the existence of sin, then discussion of their own sinful nature and the consequent needs does no good.
“I don’t deserve the death penalty.” Well, perhaps not, but you don’t *deserve* the blessings of God, either, and, through sin, are rejecting Him. C.S.Lewis opined that, eventually, a person who rejects God over and over (sin) will arrive at a time when God says, “OK, *thy* will be done”, and withdraw His presence. Is that a death penalty? In a real sense, yes it is.
But back to witnessing. I think the trajectory will often need to be,
(1) General existence of sin.
(2) That it is *people* who commit sins (and not just some sort of institutional framework or society).
(3) That *I* also commit sin and am guilty.
(4) That *I* also have been forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
A lot of people can quickly arrive at (1) and are usually unconsciously already at (2), but are very much resistant to the unpleasantness of acknowledging (3). So in many cases, that’s where the witnessing is needed.
March 18, 2010 at 2:59 pm
David Housholder
I like your numerical scope and sequence. What we need work on is better ways of presenting 3 and 4
March 18, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Mark Hunsaker
Didn’t Chesterton have a masterful response to a similar question (“What is wrong with the world?”), when he wrote this quip:
Dear Sirs,
I am.
Sincerely yours,
G. K. Chesterton
While he wasn’t asked “What is Sin?” I would guess that this is exactly what he was driving at.
March 19, 2010 at 2:30 am
David Housholder
Isn’t there something inside of you that says, “I am broken but not malicious?”
Sin is much more nuanced than we let on…
March 19, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Mark Hunsaker
David,
This is an outstanding question! I would answer this way: The me that is really me, the me that Jesus made (and is making) is not malicious.
But the me that is me that is the way I am when I am apart from Jesus, when I fight against him, when I go my own way, IS evil…not just malicious…evil.
simul iustus et peccator
March 19, 2010 at 8:45 pm
David Housholder
Lutherans, Mark, are more nuanced and better equipped to evangelize–we see the ambiguity in the human condition.
How can we do a better job of bringing it out?
March 20, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Jay Egenes
My sense is that much of what is in the Lutheran tradition ought–repeat–ought to register with younger folks, with postmodern people.
The Christus Victor view of atonement, our willingness to live with and reason from paradox, Luther’s love ethic, a view of salvation and sanctification that relies on the Holy Spirit to make us one with God–all of this stuff does hit with younger and younger thinking people–when we can explain it.
But so often we (OK, I) get caught up in theological language and don’t say anything that someone who didn’t grow up in a church would understand.
March 18, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Luke Allison
“But back to witnessing. I think the trajectory will often need to be,
(1) General existence of sin.
(2) That it is *people* who commit sins (and not just some sort of institutional framework or society).
(3) That *I* also commit sin and am guilty.
(4) That *I* also have been forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
I would like to completely remove the words “commit” from any discussion about sin. Flannery O’Connor once said: “While the South is hardly Christ-centered, it is most certainly Christ-haunted”. I think this can easily be applied to all of culture 40 years later. Because of this “haunting”, it’s nearly impossible to divorce the idea of “sin as debauchery” from the more radical Biblical notion of sin. I have a ton of agnostic/atheist friends who think they know what the Bible has to say about particular topics (like sin), and the reality is that they know what cultural media has to say about what the Bible has to say. This almost always revolves around the “commission” of sin. Until we ourselves can begin to remove the traditional vernacular from our repetoire, we’re going to hit wall after wall, I think.
That said: What is sin? Paul paints the picture of a sweeping hereditary infection, infused into the microbiological identity of every facet of creation. Maybe not those words exactly, but certainly something close. Definitely more than debaucherous behavior, although fleshly desires come from the infection of sin.
A better question might be: “What is not sin?” Do we even know? Do we have any idea what it’s like to not see through a glass darkly?
I like Romans 1 for a detailed explanation of what this looks like in the hearts and minds of people. Particularly vs 21: “For even though they knew God,
they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but
they became futile in their speculations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.”
What’s a futile speculation? What is a foolish heart? A fool in the OT was more of an infidel than an idiot. Futility is described by Paul in Romans 8:20 as something that the entire Creation was subjected to (apparently with God’s consent). A foolish, darkened heart could manifest itself in all sorts of ways.
If God is the only truly valuable thing in the universe (I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this) then hostility or faithlessness towards Him is a form of insanity. If Sin manifests this hostility or enmity towards Him (Romans 1 seems to think it does, even going so far as to call people who make up ideas about God “utter fools”) then Sin is the most dangerous thing in the universe.
As to how it came about in the first place? That’s for another verbal incontinence session.
March 19, 2010 at 2:32 am
David Housholder
I am fascinated by Wesley’s ideas about holiness in reaction to your question “What is not sin?”
How many of you have read “On Christian Perfection?
March 18, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Caroline
Simply put, sin exists where there’s the absence of God’s love in that area of a person’s life. Where sin is, darkness has access to because of the Light of God is not present.
March 19, 2010 at 2:27 am
Mark Strandjord
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. (1 Corinthians 10:13) When we receive Jesus, we become new creatures and no longer make sin a way of life. When we receive Jesus we also receive the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth and gives us power to overcome all temptations to sin. That does not mean we don’t occasionally stumble. What it does mean is that sin is no longer our Master. Righteousness becomes our Master. And Righteousness has a name: Jesus Christ. Christians should be radically different in their behavior than from the rest of the world. It’s a sad fact, many Christians change very little after saying yes to Jesus. I believe it’s because their love for this world is greater than their love for Righteousness. God will not provide His power to overcome sin to those that even have even a little friendship with sin. For those that truly hate sin, victory is hanging over their heads.
You love what is right and hate what is wrong. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you, pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.” Hebrews 1:9 Our Lord will give us a joy this world does not no of when we come to a place to truly hate sin and love righteousness. However, we will be misunderstood by the world and even hated when we don’t bend to the politically correct. The world and what it offers cannot bring me the joy that I so gladly possess.
March 19, 2010 at 2:33 am
David Housholder
I have been all over the twitterverse asking and inviting Wiccans, Hindus, Buddhists, Secularists, Pagans, and the like to join this discussion.
They look, but they don’t post.
What’s up with that?
March 19, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Kim Baffa
to acknowledge sin is to acknowledge a higher power that isn’t “everywhere”, a moral compass as it were, that precludes an “if it feels good it’s ok” lifestyle.
March 19, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Stance Nixon
Well Said.
March 19, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Stance Nixon
Actually that is an easy one to answer. If SIN does not have a definition in their belief system, then why would they feel a need to comment? Perhaps they do not want to get into an argument (discussion?) that has the feeling of I am right and you are wrong.
I like the comparison made earlier of “inside” and “outside” the church. If you are inside the church you have some sort of definition of SIN (even if it is just a list of sinful things versus non-sinful things). If you are outside the church there may be no definition, or perceived need for one of SIN. Most other religions (from my experience) have definitions of right and wrong or good and evil, but these are not necessarily similar to Non-SIN and SIN.
March 19, 2010 at 2:55 am
Mark Strandjord
All of humanity deserves eternal punishment because of sin. We did not create all that exists, God did. He established the rules. Eternal death is the consequence of even one sin. This demonstrates God’s value on Holiness. Likewise, Jesus dying on the cross demonstrates an even higher value, His love for sinners. God had a plan in place, even before He created this world, to save this world. God gave us the gift of free will. We could either choose to love Him through obedience and affectionate worship or disobey Him. He wanted true children created in His likeness. He did not want robots programmed to only do His will…that would not be true love. True love always has a choice. Only those that put their faith in Jesus, and truly allow the Holy Spirit to guide their lives, will be considered true children of God and enjoy their inheritance. Jesus passionately got on that cross to take the full punishment for all of humanities sins. He did so with great love and with no condemnation towards sinners. Only those that accept His gift, shown on the Cross, will receive sonship in His Kingdom. It’s our choice. Jesus will even love those that choose to reject Him and that choose to go to Hell. Heaven and hell is our choice. Jesus died lest no one perishes. John 3:16
March 19, 2010 at 4:54 am
David Housholder
These are all the right answers that we all know. How do we say them in a way that makes sense to people who aren’t already on the inside?
March 19, 2010 at 5:11 am
December Long
It seems people who are aware they’re struggling, hurting, sinful and are not functional or capabable of helping themselves have an easier time identifying their need for God. Unfortunately, fairly competent people with reasonably happy lives may never see that they too need God every bit as much (even those sitting in church every Sunday). Maybe that’s why God allows terrible disease, economic turmoil and wordly upheaval. Seems a mercy when you think about eternity.
March 19, 2010 at 10:37 am
Mark Strandjord
All around the world, those that are truly seeking God and His righteousness, are being fulfilled. Sin doesn’t need to be explained. The Holy Spirit came to convict the world of sin. We just need to be straight forward with truth. No christianeese talk is required. Adultery, lying, stealing, witchcraft, greed, selfishness, lewdness, outburst of anger, unforgiveness…it’s all sin. I have witnessed to Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, Sihks in highly volatile environments. And with deep love for their souls, I boldly tell them the truth. The Holy Spirit bears witness to those who are truly seeking God that what I claim is true (read Rev 19:10). I have witnessed God’s love and truth to those living in suburbs, downtowns, villages, jungles…and God’s Word doesn’t change. We don’t need to be clever and we don’t need to be persuasive…we just need to know and proclaim Jesus (read 1 Cor 2:1-5)
Jesus claims that in the end days the love of many will grow cold (read Mat 24:12). Many will no longer love and seek obedience and righteousness, but will love the ways of this world and will follow teachings that allow them to compromise their lives with the wickedness of this world (read 2 Timothy 4:3-4).
It’s not just the youth in California that have hard hearts, but all around the world, including the Church. Jesus prophesied about them as well. He said many Church people are going to find out on Judgement Day that they will not be welcomed into His Kingdom (read Mat 7:22-23).
Jesus prophesied about hard hearts… In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: ” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them (Mat 13:14-15)
Cute, funny and entertaining programs and ministry outings will not open their eyes. That’s relying on human wisdom and not the power of God. When God’s glorious power truly rest on those witnessing Jesus, their will be a harvest of souls (read Acts 1:8). Too much modern day evangelism is man-made gimmickry. Only by God’s power can we be true witnesses to Jesus and all that He taught…including “what’s sin.” And once again, “Christianeese talk” is not needed. But either is man-inspired approaches. What the Bible says about witnessing…still works. It is eternally relevant.
March 19, 2010 at 5:00 am
David Housholder
The more I work with younger Americans here in California the more I think that we have what’s like a foreign spiritual language as Christians. The grammar and vocabulary work internally for us–it’s almost poetic.
But those on the outside don’t speak our language.
How can we make sense of this to them?
March 19, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Stance Nixon
By using examples of Real Life from their position Outside of the Church, and NOT hitting them over the head with the Bible. This is equivalent to using a copy of Roberts Rules of Order to referee a Football game. Everybody else is running on a different set of rules and can’t understand what you are doing, and eventually (sooner rather than later) they will just ignore you. You need to be using the same rule book they are using.
They are outside the church, you need a way to get them inside the church (or at least interested) and THEN you can show them the right path, explain all the particulars and start quoting the Bible TO them (not AT them).
Teach them DON’T Preach them.
March 20, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Jay Egenes
I ran into an interesting article on politics daily a couple weeks ago. I don’t have the url, but the article was called “Young Adults Doing Religion on their Own?”
The author’s analysis (based on research by the Pew Center and by Robert Putnam, the “Bowling Alone” guy), was that the gap has more to do with affiliation and attendance than with belief in a general sense. Young folks believe generally in the existence of a god, heaven and hell, etc. But they are much less likely to actually be affiliated with a particular church or faith tradition than prior generations.
Putnam’s analysis lays at least some of the blame on the religious right. As the Christian church became associated at least in the media and therefore in many minds with the religious right and the moral majority, people who were or might have been nominal Christians but objected to the politics simply dis-associated themselves.
I suspect it’s much deeper, and goes back to the sceptical and generally secularizing trend that western/northern culture has been riding since at least 1750. That trend came home to roost in the generations raised after the 1960s.
But I see reasons for hope. Younger people do generally believe in the existence of a god, for example. They may be “spiritual but not religious.” But at least they’re spiritual. They didn’t drink the reductive physicalism kool-aid that our culture was pouring down people’s throats for decades.
That means they’re open if we can figure out how to communicate the message in language they understand.
Earlier this year I baptized a 7th grader. His parents were operating on the “don’t tell our kids what to believe, let them decide when they’re old enough” model. That model is the end result of the secular/sceptical trend–which equalizes and relativizes all faith traditions. Now that 7th grader brings his parents to church.
Hope for the future.
March 19, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Rebecca
Sin is more rampant than we think. Can we do ANYTHING without sinning? For when we do the right thing, do we do it for selfish motives with the idea of getting a pay-off?
When we truly see ourselves as we are, it drives us to the foot of the cross, hopefully. That is our ONLY consolation!
March 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm
David Housholder
What I am looking for is an ‘evangelistically valid’ way of describing sin to outsiders.
Unfortunately, we insiders and most theologians talk about sin in ways that are totally foreign to outsiders.
Depravity, F***** up, driven to the foot of the cross, hardened hearts, all of us deserving hell, Crucifixion covering my sin (w blood), etc >> all of this means more or less nothing to young adult outsiders.
We sound like Mormons to them, with complex (yet oversimplified) circular reasoning.
For those of us who are passionate about evangelism, how do we speak normal English with winsome, biblical, and true language to win over the lost in a way they can hear it?
March 19, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Rob Sachs
Perhaps those of us entering into this conversation about sin, might want to re-examine our positions as theologians. I am a former student of Gerhard Forde, who wrote: On Being a theologian of the Cross: Reflections of Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation, 1518. In this little book, I found chapter One most helpful in listening and sharing “the problem of Good Works,” with various people . . . especially with my context community in Evanston, WY that is 75% Mormon.
March 19, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Stance Nixon
I will admit that this is one of my MAJOR failings as a Christian. I HATE, LOTHE and DESPISE Evangelism. It is one of the worst things about Christianity in my mind. Yes, I realize that it is something we as Christians are supposed to do, but “I ain’t gonna do it!” It really sucks to be on the receiving end of a well meaning Evangelistic Pitch, with all it’s Hell Fire and Brimstone; you have SINNED and are EVIL! It often has a condescending attitude about the receiver’s knowledge, or lack, of the bible, and salvation. Most of the time, the Christian involved in the discussion comes across with a better (Holier) than thou attitude (intentional or not). Sometimes it starts out from the position “You are Wrong” (toward the non-Christian), which automatically puts them on the defensive.
First things first, put your self in their place, approach them as a NON-Christian to non-Christian. They do not feel that they have Sinned or that they are Evil. I have seen many people equate the statement “You have sinned” with “You are EVIL!!!!!” They may be having a wonderful life and don’t see a need to change anything. Remember the odds are against them having been raised in the Church so there moral compass is defined by a lot of other things (let’s save that for a different discussion), but TV shows us if it works out en the end, it was only a little wrong.
There is a difference between Belief, Fact, and Philosophy. Not to be condescending, but many people are more ignorant (under educated) than you think They actually don’t have a Belief or a Philosophy they just are, you would need to show them that there is something outside of them selves, there is an end or Not.
Some suggested methods:
Method #1) Be a Christian, live a happy life, don’t complain, help out … When they ask you how you can do this, then you can tell them. (This has worked for me)
Method #2) Don’t start with “You are a Sinner”, don’t even bring it up. Point out how your life is better, than it was. Show them how their life could be better. Show them the built in support of being a Christian.
Method #3) Show them what it is like to be on the “inside”. Invite them to functions, not to church, but social functions, events, etc. Show them what it is like (again DON’T beat them over the head with it. Do not throw god in their face. This is hard to do as other well meaning Christians will ruin this approach.
Method #4) Comparative Religions; take a look at what else is out there. This can be used to show different paths and philosophies. Then you can explain your path and your beliefs. DO NOT make this in to a discussion of “Everything Else Is WRONG, Christianity is the only right way”, argument. You will usually loose.
Method #5) Alpha, let them come to you and learn.
My answer to the Young Lady (after a lot of thought) is … No you don’t deserve Death, so what are you going to do to not Die? Have a Big family to remember you by? Cure cancer? Stop War? You will die eventually, when your body wears out weather or not you have done many or few wrong things. What are you going to do about You? How can you keep yourself from not existing any more?
March 23, 2010 at 3:45 am
St. Rodney
I love this, and I agree 100%! This is a great way to approach the topic of sin with everyday non-christians.
May 28, 2010 at 5:24 am
Patti Smith
Stance–as always, I appreciate your candidness! You are frank, concise and I couldnt agree more.
March 20, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Frank Guerra
Sin is that which is not done out of love.
When I speak to an outsider I define sin simply as the wrongs we’ve committed in our lives, which is usually accepted by the supposed “bad people” for they have no false righteousness to try and defend. To be free of sin to an unbeliever could be defined as free from the penalty of sin, having their slate wiped clean. As they realize more and more what they’ve been given, which they don’t deserve, they fall deeper in love with Him and as always the will will follow the heart.
March 20, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Luke Allison
“David Housholder
I am fascinated by Wesley’s ideas about holiness in reaction to your question “What is not sin?”
How many of you have read “On Christian Perfection?”
“4. What is then the perfection of which man is capable while he dwells in a corruptible body? It is the complying with that kind command, “My son, give me thy heart.” It is the “loving the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind.” This is the sum of Christian perfection: It is all comprised in that one word, Love. The first branch of it is the love of God: And as he that loves God loves his brother also, it is inseparably connected with the second: “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:” Thou shalt love every man as thy own soul, as Christ loved us. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets:” These contain the whole of Christian perfection.
5. Another view of this is given us in those words of the great Apostle: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” For although this immediately and directly refers to the humility of our Lord, yet it may be taken in a far more extensive sense, so as to include the whole disposition of his mind, all his affections, all his tempers, both toward God and man. Now it is certain that as there was no evil affection in him, so no good affection or temper was wanting. So that “whatsoever things are holy, whatsoever things are lovely,” are all included in “the mind that was in Christ Jesus.”
Like I’ve often said to students: “Flee from sexual immorality! (one could conceivably include all sin in this) But then have something to flee to. If you just flee, you’ll wind up in the wilderness with nothing to eat, and as soon as the hunger gets too strong, you’ll be back for seconds and thirds. Flee towards the superior something.”
March 23, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Don
The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord
Original Sin
1] And, to begin with, a controversy has occurred among some theologians of the Augsburg Confession concerning Original Sin, what it properly [and really] is. For one side contended that, since through the fall of Adam man’s nature, substance, and essence of the corrupt, man, now, since the Fall, or, at any rate, the principal, highest part of his essence, namely, the rational soul in its highest state or principal powers is original sin itself, which has been called nature-sin or person-sin, for the reason that it is not a thought, word, or work, but the nature itself whence, as from a root, spring all other sins, and that on this account there is now, since the Fall, because the nature is corrupt through sin, no difference whatever between the nature and essence of man and original sin.
2] But the other side taught, in opposition, that original sin is not properly the nature, substance, or essence of man, that is, man’s body or soul, which even now, since the Fall, are and remain the creation and creatures of God in us, but that it is something in the nature, body, and soul of man, and in all his powers, namely, a horrible, deep, inexpressible corruption of the same, so that man is destitute of the righteousness wherein he was originally created, and in spiritual things is dead to good and perverted to all evil; and that, because of this corruption and inborn sin, which inheres in the nature, all actual sins flow forth from the heart; and that hence a distinction must be maintained between the nature and essence of the corrupt man, or his body and soul, which are the creation and creatures of God in us even since the Fall, and original sin, which is a work of the devil, by which the nature has become corrupt.
3] Now this controversy concerning original sin is not unnecessary wrangling, but if this doctrine is rightly presented from, and according to, God’s Word, and separated from all Pelagian and Manichean errors, then (as the Apology says) the benefits of the Lord Christ and His precious merit, also the gracious operation of the Holy Ghost, are the better known and the more extolled; moreover, due honor is rendered to God, if His work and creation in man is rightly distinguished from the work of the devil, by which the nature has been corrupted. 4] In order, therefore, to explain this controversy in the Christian way and according to God’s Word, and to maintain the correct, pure doctrine of original sin, we shall collect from the above-mentioned writings the thesis and antithesis, that is, the correct doctrine and its opposite, into brief chapters.
5] 1. And first, it is true that Christians should regard and recognize as sin not only the actual transgression of God’s commandments; but also that the horrible, dreadful hereditary malady by which the entire nature is corrupted should above all things be regarded and recognized as sin indeed, yea, as the chief sin, which is a root and fountain-head of all actual sins. 6] And by Dr. Luther it is called a nature-sin or person-sin, thereby to indicate that, even though a person would think, speak, or do nothing evil (which, however, is impossible in this life, since the fall of our first parents), his nature and person are nevertheless sinful, that is, thoroughly and utterly infected and corrupted before God by original sin, as by a spiritual leprosy; and on account of this corruption and because of the fall of the first man the nature or person is accused or condemned by God’s Law, so that we are by nature the children of wrath, death, and damnation, unless we are delivered therefrom by the merit of Christ.
7] 2. In the second place, this, too, is clear and true, as the Nineteenth Article of the Augsburg Confession teaches, that God is not a creator, author, or cause of sin, but by the instigation of the devil through one man sin (which is a work of the devil) has entered the world, Rom. 5, 12; 1 John 3, 7. And even at the present day, in this corruption [in this corruption of nature], God does not create and make sin in us, but with the nature which God at the present day still creates and makes in men original sin is propagated from sinful seed, through carnal conception and birth from father and mother.
8] 3. In the third place, what [and how great] this hereditary evil is no reason knows and understands, but, as the Smalcald Articles say, it must be learned and believed from the revelation of Scripture. And in the Apology this is briefly comprehended under the following main heads:
9] 1. That this hereditary evil is the guilt [by which it comes to pass] that, by reason of the disobedience of Adam and Eve, we are all in God’s displeasure, and by nature children of wrath, as the apostle shows Rom. 5, 12ff ; Eph. 2, 3.
10] 2. Secondly, that it is an entire want or lack of the concreated hereditary righteousness in Paradise, or of God’s image, according to which man was originally created in truth, holiness, and righteousness; and at the same time an inability and unfitness for all the things of God, or, as the Latin words read: Desciptio peccati originalis detrahit naturae non renovatae et dona et vim seu facultatem et actus inchoandi et efficiendi spiritualia; that is: The definition of original sin takes away from the unrenewed nature the gifts, the power, and all activity for beginning and effecting anything in spiritual things.
11] 3. That original sin (in human nature) is not only this entire absence of all good in spiritual, divine things, but that, instead of the lost image of God in man, it is at the same time also a deep, wicked, horrible, fathomless, inscrutable, and unspeakable corruption of the entire nature and all its powers, especially of the highest, principal powers of the soul in the understanding, heart, and will, so that now, since the Fall, man inherits an inborn wicked disposition and inward impurity of heart, evil lust and propensity; 12] that we all by disposition and nature inherit from Adam such a heart, feeling, and thought as are, according to their highest powers and the light of reason, naturally inclined and disposed directly contrary to God and His chief commandments, yea, that they are enmity against God, especially as regards divine and spiritual things. For in other respects, as regards natural, external things which are subject to reason, man still has to a certain degree understanding, power, and ability, although very much weakened, all of which, however, has been so infected and contaminated by original sin that before God it is of no use.
13] 4. The punishment and penalty of original sin, which God has imposed upon the children of Adam and upon original sin, are death, eternal damnation, and also other bodily and spiritual, temporal and eternal miseries, and the tyranny and dominion of the devil, so that human nature is subject to the kingdom of the devil and has been surrendered to the power of the devil, and is held captive under his away, who stupefies [fascinates] and leads astray many a great, learned man in the world by means of dreadful error, heresy, and other blindness, and otherwise rushes men into all sorts of crime.
14] 5. Fifthly, this hereditary evil is so great and horrible that only for the sake of the Lord Christ it can be covered and forgiven before God in the baptized and believing. Moreover, human nature, which is perverted and corrupted thereby, must and can be healed only by the regeneration and renewal of the Holy Ghost, which, however, is only begun in this life, but will not be perfect until in the life to come.
15] These points, which have been quoted here only in a summary way, are set forth more fully in the above-mentioned writings of the common confession of our Christian doctrine.
March 24, 2010 at 3:03 pm
David Housholder
You’re comment number 666 on this blog site. 🙂
March 25, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Louis H.
Going back to one of the original questions you posted David, what to say to the girl on the chairlift. No one gets the death sentence for sin. They get the “death sentence” for not accepting Christ. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. But not all of us have asked for forgiveness and brought Jesus into our life. Rejecting Jesus is the death sentence.
People want to do things their way. Jesus is old fashioned to them. They need to understand he is the only way to Heaven. All other paths lead to hell. You can’t earn your way or buy your way. All you have to do is ask. That seems to be the hardest question of all.
March 26, 2010 at 12:35 am
December Long
Sometimes I think we get a little caught up in marketing Jesus to segments of people. What if you just ask Jesus what a person or group of people needs when you come upon them or what He’d like you to do for them or tell them? Then do it or tell them. Who knows better than He does? We humans get so very competent in ourselves and performance that we don’t even really think about how much God is just standing there waiting to be consulted. Just a thought.
March 26, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Allen
All living beings on the planet work very hard to persist. In past sermons, you’ve given the example of weeds sprouting where they just should not be growing. I cannot imagine that is the work of the devil.
Also, God made humans just underneath his abilities. That is also a message that you’ve preached in the past.
Extrapolating, humans are extremely capable and work very hard to persist. However, there are so many of us that in the United States, for example, there are pages and pages of laws intended to enable humans to both persist and co-exist at the same time.
People are very clever in their abilities to persist no matter the climate or situation. The root of many sins seems to be in situations where an individual’s persistence and the co-existence of others collide.
Another source of sin is when people, while using their brains, have thoughts that, if enacted, could lead to impacting the co-existence of one or more of their fellow human beings.
Another source of sin is when people do things that impact the persistence of other living things, either directly or indirectly. A struggle of whether something is a sin in this instance is whether the persistence and co-existence of the whole outweighs the persistence and co-existence of a few.
People are also clan-oriented in nature. Actions that people take on behalf of their clan can be perceived as beneficial from one perspective and sinful in another perspective.
I have faith that Jesus died to bring sanity to a world that could not figure out how to legislate itself through years and years of Jewish law, which was practiced admist the laws and beliefs of the ‘Gentiles.’ He died to wash away the actions of the almost-God-like humans, who God made to persist and co-exist in a world that they have little control over.
March 26, 2010 at 10:56 pm
David Housholder
Allen, where do you get such fresh thinking?
This, as always, is really good stuff.
March 29, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Luke Allison
“I have faith that Jesus died to bring sanity to a world that could not figure out how to legislate itself through years and years of Jewish law, which was practiced admist the laws and beliefs of the ‘Gentiles.’ He died to wash away the actions of the almost-God-like humans, who God made to persist and co-exist in a world that they have little control over.”
The only thing that doesn’t gel here is that God put the “Jewish law” in place in the first place.
The fundamental question of all of this is “Why does God dying a bloody death change anything at all?”
March 29, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Luke Allison
Also, since sin was originally a desire for moral autonomy, isn’t the very act of legislating oneself the definition of original sin?
March 30, 2010 at 12:48 am
Allen
Interesting dilemma. Jesus gave the religious leaders multiple challenges to their approach to implementing Jewish law during his lifetime. Was he mocking his Father’s law, the implementation of it, or the way it was being interpreted? Certainly, he was pushing against something. It seems if Jesus really wanted a rallying cry for reinstitution of the original customs, Paul and the other disciples missed the point in their writings in the New Testament, as I don’t get a flavor of, “repent both Jews and Gentiles to embrace the 100’s of years old ways to behave.”
I also like the image you bring forth in the description of a bloody death. What other way to say, “it is done,” than to die in that manner. Dying on the cross, wisping in the wind, challeging us all to make a decision – Move forward in the world with the empowerment Jesus brings or become irrelevant dust in an uncaring world.
I’m a big believer that the Bible is big picture. The Old Testament thoroughly documents man’s struggle to keep God ‘happy.’ As a last ditch effort, Jesus brings to light the ability to empower all. The New Testament is the start of the world’s struggle to engage in what has been provided. It’s up to each of us to determine whether we have faith, and how to apply that faith, from the many, many stories in the Bible from which one can build their faith.
March 30, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Luke Allison
“Certainly, he was pushing against something. It seems if Jesus really wanted a rallying cry for reinstitution of the original customs, Paul and the other disciples missed the point in their writings in the New Testament, as I don’t get a flavor of, “repent both Jews and Gentiles to embrace the 100’s of years old ways to behave.”
Certainly not, but the Law was still put in place by God, not by men.
The purpose of the Law is threefold: 1. It acts as a “tutor” to drive us to Christ (Gal 3:24,25), by exposing and increasing sin and bondage in those who attempt to keep it. Which would mean that the very point of the law is that it can’t be kept. But God still instituted it for that very purpose.
2. It acts as a magnification of Christ: it served as the conduit by which His atonement was enacted. Jesus kept the Law, in every facet, which made Him the only one who COULD atone in the first place (Romans 3:25-26 makes a clear case that Christ was sacrificed in order for God to be just, AND the justifier of unjust men.) Not only that, but Christ suffered completely and utterly every curse and negative aspect of the Law (Gal 3:12-14), which were initially a sort of “type, shadow, or form” of the sufferings due rebellious humanity in the afterlife.
3. The Law lays out a clear eschatological picture of what Christ’s coming Kingdom (and present Kingdom) should and will look like. The apostles compared and contrasted the righteousness found in Christ with the righteousness attained by the Law frequently (“how much more” arguments like 2 Cor 3:7-8 come to mind).
Remember that the Law was not something that bound and destroyed true men of God. It was, rather, a delight to those who truly loved Him, because they understood the spirit rather than the letter.
Jesus railed against the Pharisees not because they cared about the Law, but because they were hypocrites who didn’t understand the spirit vs the letter of the law. Jesus Himself “delighted in the law of the Lord, and on that law He meditated day and night.”
So the Law is beautiful, because it shows us God’s standard, and His intent for the world (building crenelations on the rooftop like in Deut 22:7-9 seems silly, but it was a form of safety for sleeping strangers, ie, God cares about the little details of mercy and grace.)
But it is also dangerous, because attempting to keep it for it’s own sake will only lead to greater levels of sinful morality (religious behavior). Christians need to live in the tension of “finding great delight in His commands” (Psalm 112:1-3) and living in Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ.
Something that we haven’t talked about yet is the fact that God’s anger and wrath at sin is mentioned close to 600 times in Scripture.
What part does this play in Jesus dying a bloody death?
March 30, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Luke Allison
Which is to say: He was mocking the way it was implemented. 2nd Temple Judaism looked nothing like Mosaic Law.
March 31, 2010 at 11:04 am
Allen
Thanks for your passion Luke. The body of Christ needs all of us and as a fellow member, I wish you blessings and pray for all members that we enjoy the freedom we’re celebrating on Sunday.
March 31, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Luke Allison
“Thanks for your passion Luke. The body of Christ needs all of us and as a fellow member, I wish you blessings and pray for all members that we enjoy the freedom we’re celebrating on Sunday”
Same to you. Been enjoying it particularly in this robust dialogue!
March 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Kal Makela
Pr David, What is sin? That is an interesting question. And hard to define. One conclusion I have come to after the ELCA Assembly vote in August is that sin can’t be defined the by a simple majority vote or even by a super majority vote by delegates to a national meeting of a denomination. No matter what we as humans might decide is or not sin, God’s vote will ultimately be the deciding vote.
May 28, 2010 at 5:20 am
Patti Smith
If we say that sin does not exist, then we give license to doing wrong. Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, but that does not mean that we automatically live a sinless life. A sin is when we break the 10 commandments. And that’s a hard road to follow. Since God is just, then when we break a commandment–it’s a sin. Believers break the 10… See More commandments all the time–but our sin is that “bumper” that reminds us that we need to live daily in God’s grace. When we draw closer to God, He draws closer to us, and we tend to sin less–but we are never “sin-less”. We are humans and our nature is sinful–in our flesh we sin. But IN christ we live and breath and have our being….and when we stay close to Him — we “sin-less”. and when we DO sin, and we are truly repentant and turn away (sometimes again and again), God is gracious and true–and forgives us and sets us up in a right relationship with Him once again. LIke a heavenly Father – Abba Father!
May 28, 2010 at 5:32 am
St. Rodney
I believe that everyone on earth has a “moral compass”(regardless of their faith). So to some level we all (even small children ) have an idea of what sin is. To the “people on the chairlift” in our lives, when you do something wrong to any degree, remember to say “I’m sorry “. And mean it. More often than not simple answers are best.
June 10, 2010 at 5:13 am
Troy
Sin = anti-Christ
May 6, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Jason Lagden
Does sin exist? This is a question that I ask a lot.
And I found this post by searching the words “how can sin really exist” in Google.
I am a psychologist and when you delve into the depths of the subconscious mind and the complexity of how people make decisions, sin and “error” is definitely something that is 99% undefinable to us as humans. Especially if you are making a judgement of another person.
Internet Trolls: If you think you have it worked it out then please… write a book about it and enlighten the rest of us. Make sure it scientific also ;o)
If sin was to exist. I have come to the conclusion that it can only mean one thing…
Not believing in yourself!!!
When I say this to people they are always like “well its thinking you were God that got you into sin”. All I have to say about that is practice lateral thinking and problem solving. Think deeper and explore things that are new… Comfort means you are thinking within your existing neurological networks. That’s why learning is painful, its making new physical pathways.
If the bible is true and you believe that “we are made in the image of God”.
Then anything less than thinking you are amazing is sin.
Because not having confidence in yourself is equal to not having confidence in God and not believing in yourself is equal to not believing in God.
Controversial statement I know, although it has the equal potential to give a person freedom as it does offense. Depending on your conditioning you will react from the viewpoint of however you believe reality to be constructed.
If we have dominion here like the bible says then we must have been installed with everything we need to dominate.
So we were created a complete package (in Gods image on an earthly scale) and by Adam and Eve eating the fruit it is simply a sign that they forgot they were made in the image of God. (Look at all the marketing these days “you aren’t good enough unless you have this THING.. By the way, things are fun :).
I’m going to keep this short because there’s nothing worst than a ranting reply to a post on the internet. Especially a religious one.
Bullet points (if you believe)
– We were made in his image
– We were given dominion of earth (meaning God does not have dominion here because he gave it to us)
Jesus said in the new testament (if you want to argue with it then Google it) “you are gods” (little g) implying that we are made in his image and we have dominion. (some versions say “we are a little lower than the angels” but i think some pompous person who was trying to look “humble” did this. Putting yourself down is not humility, honesty is and if you’re awesome at something the humility is admitting it and being honest without being arrogant).
Many people think “well I feel bad so there must be something wrong with me” but the fact is people feel bad as a result of thinking there is something wrong with them. (you only have to hang around on this planet for a little while before 100 or so people will tell you that you’re a no good piece of slag, especially Christians haha!).
Thought experiment: If I made a human, and I gave them every ounce of power they needed to Dominate a planet.
If I imparted into them… POWER… Then they forgot about it and when I reminded them they didn’t believe they were all powerful AND on top of that they thought an apple would give them power… I’d be pretty upset too… (imagine telling your kids they are smart and they always think they’re dumb, now times that by a million).
It isn’t the apple that had had the “knowledge” of good and evil. It is the fact that eating it (if the story isn’t just a metaphor) gave the revelation that apples don’t have books inside of them. Contrast and experience opens the eyes to the knowledge and wisdom.
Anyways, I’m off. I sure don’t know the meaning of life the universe and everything. But from my journey so far, this is the conclusion i have come to.
Peace!
August 27, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Sean
In the aramaic bible God said that man would be cast out of the garden of Eden, but also said that man will one day make it back to the garden of Eden. With that also being said, not once in the story of Adam and Eve does God ever tell them They sinned. The man that first connected everyone to sin through Adam was Paul, Who in fact never knew Jesus. He tells us that we all are born into sin and have sinned. But this isn’t the case in John chapter 9 ver 2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind. 9:3 Jesus answered , Neither hath this man, or his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. Clearly this shows us that not all men have been born into sin or have sinned. So I think we have to ask what really is sin! Is it nothing more the karmic debt? His disciples asked Jesus what did the man do to be born blind. Which i believe goes with the age old debate, if Jesus taught his disciples in secret about reincarnation. Why else would they even ask such a question? People say Jesus didn’t talk about reincarnation at all. But did he? The hot topic of John the baptist being the reincarnation of Elijah: John the baptist is asked if he is indeed the reincarnation of Elijah, in which John said no. But Jesus says other wise. Why would people even bring it up if there wasn’t some truth behind it. Why would Jesus say yes he was and John say no he isn’t. And who do we believe Jesus who said he was or John who said no? For starters who was Greater Jesus or John? Easy john said Jesus was Greater. Do any of us remember a past life, Most likely not. Jesus for sure would most likely recall that John was indeed Elijah. How does this all tie into sin and how it ties into Karma. After the beheading of John, Jesus took a few of his disciples to the top of a mountain and transfigured into a Being of Light. On the mountain with them as Elijah and Moses.
After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus …
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.
And they asked him, “Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things.”
“Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?”
“But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.” (Mark 9:9-13)
Elijah
“Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.” (1 Kings 18:40).
Was Elijah paying a Karmic dept? And could this indeed being the meaning of Sin?
August 2, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Chad A. Fisher
If sin didn’t exist, then there would be no need for such a question. We would all live in peace and harmony and eternal bliss. But the world isn’t like that, is it? For you see, sin exists in an esoteric sense in the broader reality; meaning something akin to the Dark Force in Star Wars; it is a force that can only be conquered by the grace of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for the sins of humankind, but on the personal (individual) level it is summed up in what Jesus considered the two greatest commandments:
“Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” From Matthew 22 New International Version.
Jesus knew the deeper truth, that when we aren’t living a life pleasing to God, we don’t really love our neighbor. You see, God is not only the source of love, He is Love; the essence of caring on a fundamental level: this is further exemplified by His willingness to send Jesus to be the atonement for our sins. Without God, we live only to please self. Self can only be pleased when the threat to self is conquered. The threat to Self is others. But Christ atones for this sinful nature by permitting us to be seen as though we were without sin to God. Now, a person can appear to be “morally good” and yet sinful. Why? Because of motivation. Outwardly the deeds manifested appear as “morally good.” But inwardly, only God knows the heart. But thank the Lord that mankind can be found in his grace, and atoned for their sinful self, and redeemed back toward sanctification through the power and Love of Jesus Christ. Jesus was indeed, more than a prophet! Hallelujah.
My paraphrase from John 3:16:
Yes! God loved the world with so much love that he chose to give His only son (Jesus Christ) that whoever decides to believe in God’s Son will undoubtedly have eternal life, and will never perish.