This picture was just to get your attention. I assume it worked…
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on this.
I have strong opinions on abortion, and not, perhaps, for the reasons you think.
For me, it’s a natalism and justice issue, not a conservative or liberal issue.
Truth is, the word abortion is not directly mentioned in the Bible. Even the concept is not there. So arguing on biblical grounds is possible, but challenging. You have to build implicit (not explicit) biblical arguments.
Being against abortion, as I am, is also counter-intuitive for me. As a Libertarian, I don’t like government interference in anything.
But Libertarianism can only exist given the total security of each person. Only when we decide not to bully or kill one another can a Libertarian society emerge. There needs to be a bedrock sense of civility and respect for it to work. In my mind, this must include the unborn.
Some random thoughts:
1) No one, in a free society, should be coerced into paying for something deeply against his or her conscience and morals. My tax money pays for abortions. This is not OK with me. It’s like forcing abolitionists to pay for slave shackles…
2) Insurance plans also pay for abortions–virtually all of them, because of the medical coding system which protects a woman’s privacy. Oversimplistically put, a miscarriage is coded the same as an abortion. Most all Americans, thus, fund abortions. That’s a problem.
3) I truly am striving to understand the pro-choice position. I would invite you pro-choicers to do the same with our views. Seriously. We are working with a woman who is seven months pregnant right now. She will give birth to a third child from a third “father.” He is a felon and intends to hurt her when he gets out this fall. No wonder she wants an abortion. She is a second generation welfare mom, with no stable families that I can find anywhere in her extended clan. I’m not excusing her thoughts; just trying to explain them. Many women seeking abortions see no way out, and their circumstances are hard for us in Middle America to understand.
4) The justice issue. We are to protect those who have no voice. That must include the unborn babies. Someone has to speak for them.
5) Finding families to adopt babies is not a problem. I and every pastor I know has a list of hundreds of couples starving to adopt a child. Most of them make six figures and are solid as the day is long.
6) Abortion is profitable. Profit skews the ethics of those providing abortions. Everyone they convince to abort adds to their profit. If I told you some things I know about these profits, you wouldn’t believe me.
Not just profitable. Predatory. Wanna find an abortion clinic? Go to the same poor neighborhoods that get targeted for lottery tickets and 40-oz malt liquors.
The once-vibrant African-American community here in L.A. is disappearing. At one time they even elected a black mayor, Tom Bradley. Now they are sidelined, swallowed up in a sea of Anglos, Asians, and Latinos. Remember, Planned Parenthood was started by a eugenics fan who doubted the viability of “inferior races.” Disgusting…
7) “What about rape?” is a copout. Does that automatically make it the baby’s fault? Instant death penalty? One of our worship leaders at Robinwood Church was conceived in rape. I cannot imagine a world without her. Using an extreme (but very real) example to push for abortion on demand in all cases is not helpful.
8. Late term abortions are repulsive. No matter how you look at it. And yet they are legal. How does this happen in a democracy where an overwhelming majority of Americans find late term abortions an outrage?
9) I go to the Long Beach abortion clinic and stand on the sidewalk. Totally legal. Not protesting. Not hindering. I ask women approaching the building “If we gave you another option, would you take it?” About 1/3 say yes, immediately. We take care of them at http://hisnestingplace.org for months on end.
10) Are human beings an asset or a liability? If they are an asset, we need to keep them. If they are a liability….
11) I’m not a full-blown natalist, but I have some natalist tendencies. I believe in big families. I don’t believe in over-population. I fly all over America. Trust me, most of it is totally empty.
12) I don’t like the phrase “You can’t legislate morality.” Our entire legal system is legislated morality. Don’t kill. Don’t steal. Etc. etc.
13) I don’t like the idea that we can’t use our faith in political arguments. Tell that to Martin Luther King. Tell that to those who ran the Underground Railroad. Tell that to the committed Christians who fought for the right for women to be able to vote. Tell that to our strident borderline-scary faith-filled women (and a few men) who founded our hospitals and universities (usually in a black and white picture, standing in mud with a shovel, next to the pictures of today’s board members in hospital hallways).
14) Feminism shows us some truth in this issue. It’s the woman who often suffers most from an unwanted pregnancy. Pro-lifers would do better to try to understand this and not just de-value this argument in favor of the baby. “You should have known better” is not a real helpful thing to say to a scared, pregnant woman.
15) Think how much a baby develops in his or her first year of life. The 9 months of pregnancy show even much more dramatic, miraculous development. Is it just me, or does stopping that seem deeply wrong at some level?
That should get us going.
Keep it civil, or I WILL delete you.
Let’s strive to understand each other.
I want to end abortion. Others disagree.
What do you think?
David Housholder Essays 
36 comments
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July 27, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Megan
I come at this issue from two different viewpoints.
First an 18 year old high school student who was pregnant and scared because my older sister had already had a child out of wedlock and my mother had said to me if I ever did that to her I would send her to a mental institution. She was also a pro-life rally supporter. I knew killing a baby was wrong… but I convinced myself that it was my only option. My boyfriend paid for the abortion and then promptly dumped me for someone else. Problem solved?
Fast forward 3 years. I get pregnant again- this time by an abusive drunk. He gets his whole family to surround me (physically) and tell me that I MUST have an abortion. I refuse as I have learned my lesson. I get things thrown at me, punched, spit on and verbally abused for 9 months when “daddy” sees the baby born and decides he wants to be a father. We split and my son deals with visitation, child-support issues and custodial rigamaroll. He is now 17 years old.
Moral of the story? We are fallen creatures who have a habit of putting ourselves on the throne of our lives… even when we don’t realize it. When I was sleeping around in my teens- I was putting myself first. When I got the abortion, I was putting myself first. When I slept around again, I was putting myself first… BUT WHEN I RESOLVED IN MY MIND THAT I WAS GOING TO KEEP THAT BABY no matter what… that was the ONLY time that I actually thought of someone else instead of myself… and it changed me. Forever. God worked a miracle in me because of that one little decision. THAT is the power of giving life… “God has given me a man” says Eve. Exactly. We are blessed each time a man is conceived in our womb and it is our duty to bring it to birth. If we cannot take care of it- God will provide someone who can…
I will tell you that if I had someone like you come up to me when I was walking into that abortion clinic- with some answers (not just pictures shoved in my face) then I would have kept my first baby. I KNEW it was wrong… I didn’t want to do it. I cried while I laid on the table listening to an abortion happening in the next room… waiting my turn. Still makes me sick to think about it. But God is a healer and He is Good. Keep fighting the fight, David.
July 27, 2011 at 10:19 pm
rob Haskell
Hi David – I agree with you about abortion, but a couple minor disagreements. First, I’d like to challenge your view of what constitutes a good biblical argument. You are right, of course, that the topic is not “biblical” in the literal sense. However, (1) Child sacrifice is probably a very strong analog. (2) I think it’s a mistake to think that a biblical argument is weaker because it is made on the basis of biblical principles rather than on specific literal verses one can quote. In fact, the reverse is often true because people love to quote verses that don’t apply. The Biblical rationale against Abortion (primarily the image of God in humans, secondarily selfishness as an inappropriate motivation for destroying life) is very strong. Second (kind of ironically), I don’t think that biblical arguments are really that strategic these days. I think we ought to work on humanist and rational arguments that anyone can agree with. In this particular issue we as Christians cannot wait until the whole world accepts the Bible as true in order to convince them that abortion is not good. And I think there are some good arguments or rationales against abortion that can be pursued. Another story…
July 28, 2011 at 4:46 am
David Housholder
Hey Rob, thanks for posting. I think your point 2 is stronger than point 1. The image of God thing is powerful.
July 27, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Peter
‘Defining’ issue is a big word, it’s what you want to make out of it. Anyway, I think there are more defining issues: http://www.good.is/post/can-you-guess-the-moral-issue-that-most-divides-americans/
July 28, 2011 at 4:48 am
David Housholder
There are lots of issues, indeed. This one has more horsepower. Nothing else produces such visceral response.
July 28, 2011 at 1:13 am
Kim Baffa
I’ve never met a woman who did not regret her decision to abort, although there may be some. My husband and I used to joke that when people want children, the word is “We’re going to have a baby” not “We’re cooking up a zygote.” We legislate (or should), based on moral judgements. If I think it’s wrong, how can I vote in favor of it? That brings up a whole debate you probably don’t want here. As a personal aside, a friend’s daughter ran her local Planned Parenthood, and miscarried several times before she left her position.
July 28, 2011 at 3:19 am
Justme
I know a number of women who did not regret their decision to abort. The ones I mention here are both Christian. One was married, using birth control, and the birth control failed. Another woman already had several children and couldn’t support another.
I know of women who have tests telling them their children will have terminal illness when they are born and are wired at birth to have a short life of suffering, then death. I can’t imagine the pain of having to make that kind of choice – to end that pregnancy or go through the the pain of caring for a baby you know will die slowly and painfully – and NOT wanting to prevent that.
I believe life starts as Adam’s did, with the breath of life, in which one becomes a (Hebrew) “nephesh ki”, or “living soul”, and until then, it is simply a “nephesh”, or “nonliving soul”. I believe a fetus in the womb, until it is able to support itself outside of the womb, is a POTENTIAL being, not an independent “living soul”. You may disagree, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, and that is where I see the line.
I think that it’s ironic that you do not want government interference in any of our decisions, yet you accept interference in this most personal decision. I think God will act for those who should be born, and His wisdom will not fail in those He knows will not be.
July 28, 2011 at 4:51 am
David Housholder
Yes is it ironic that I don’t like government intervention, being a Libertarian. I actually mentioned that in my post.
But if you really think about it, Libertarianism only works if you can first secure the physical safety of all citizens. Otherwise you just have roving gangs and warlords. This includes securing the safety of the most leveraged. I would put unborn humans at the top of that list.
As to the nephesh thing; I think that’s a bit on the sophistry side. Following your reasoning, you could go into the womb 5 minutes before birth, keep the baby from breathing, kill it, and have no moral culpability.
That, of course, offends everyone’s moral sensibility, liberal and conservative.
July 28, 2011 at 6:24 am
Shannon McMannus
So what would you say to the family who delivers twins at 23 weeks gestation. Are there babies just potential beings? Born, two perfect little people able to lay in the palm of your hand. Complete with everything a living soul has. At the time, one could abort those little potential beings. I watched them grow on the outside of their mothers womb, as small as they were yes. Of course they needed some medical support but how can one look at those perfect little potential beings and not see them as a 40 week gestation living soul. They had everything. Have you ever seen a baby born that small? It might change your perspective? And your right everyone has their line. That is why God gave us free will. We all have a choice to make. As a mom myself, I choose life. God gives life. It’s a gift. We make choices for our own personal reasons; sometimes the wrong choice. We never know what sort of amazing gifts we are missing out on because we choose to be selfish. Not to say that to be harsh; I too am selfish. It is human nature. I am just saying. Perhaps we need to think about what God’s plans were for that nonliving soul. Maybe to give joy to another family who is unable to conceive. Just perhaps that child has something great to offer this world (as I believe everyone has something great to give). God doesn’t make mistakes. Even the conception of an nonliving soul. It’s our choice. Life is not ours to take. We didn’t give it to ourselves in the first place. Thanks for letting me share my line. Blessings abundant I pray for you.
July 28, 2011 at 9:55 am
Michelle
English Standard Version
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
July 28, 2011 at 3:07 am
Joe
What is your goal? Do you want to make abortions illegal? Or is your hope not to have tax money going towards abortions?
If you do want abortions to stop completely what will happen to those women who get one, will they be arrested for murder?
July 28, 2011 at 4:54 am
David Housholder
Good question. Seriously.
I would start with not having to pay for something which I consider a moral outrage. The Amish don’t have to serve in the military because of deep reservations about war. I have just as deep convictions about this. So do tens of millions of us.
I don’t mind paying taxes for the common good, as long as we all agree and have consensus on the issues.
There is no consensus on this one.
As for illegality, we have to get legal clarity.
If you shoot a pregnant woman, it’s a double murder.
If you to a late term abortion, no police officer visits you to ask questions.
What’s with that?
July 28, 2011 at 4:16 am
Patti S mith
I am that worship leader that Dave mentioned in his blog. I was conceived in rape. I am thankful that my birth mother wrestled with her decision and that life won out. I’m thankful that she gave 9 months of her life to nurture that child within her and then to make the very very hard choice to give me up to two parents she never met knowing that she would never see me again. (as fate would have it, I found her in 1998 and we had a very joyful reunion – that is how I learned about the rape). I always get a bit angry when I hear arguments against abortion but then the phrase is added “except in the case of rape or incest”. HELLO???? like children who were born of rape or of incest are monsters to be rid of, not human, no personhood rights? No, we are just like you!!! No more, no less.
July 28, 2011 at 4:55 am
Wendy
Megan, you wrote: “God worked a miracle in me because of that one little decision.” All I can say is that this was the one single BIGGEST decision you ever made, and I cannot commend you enough for making it. You literally saved a life, one that you had complete control over. Kinda sounds like what God has done for us =] Well done Megan!!!!
July 28, 2011 at 5:30 am
cseriksen
I have several feelings here.
1.Even when there was a GOP congress and GOP president nothing is done about abortion. I feel like it used as a political touch point more than a real issue.
2.Countries with more liberal abortion laws have much lower abortion rates. What is the cause of this?
3. Conservatives need to acknowledge the value of life in all situations at all costs of they are going be authentic in this debate. Are criminals redeemable, are poor children worth taking care of…..
July 28, 2011 at 5:48 am
David Housholder
I agree that republican leaders have done zippo.
But that doesn’t make it an issue that is any less real. If you, as I do, believe that unborn babies are unequivocally human beings, then we are looking at genocide at levels of tens of millions. 1/3 of today’s young adult generation was aborted.
The more liberal the abortion law, the fewer abortions? I’ll need authentication on this one. Russia has had the most liberal abortion laws of all during my entire lifetime, and they are aborting themselves out of existence. Demographic suicide.
And I agree about caring for all life.
July 28, 2011 at 6:13 am
Megan
I would venture to guess that those countries with the lower abortion rates are liberally dispensing the morning after pill- which will undoubtedly “lower” their rates of fetal abortion… but is still haneous nontheless.
July 28, 2011 at 8:52 am
Pat Gilbert
First of all, I think we need to stop making this a political issue. We have had seven presidents since Roe v Wade and given the principle of stare decisis, any future Supreme Court is unlikely to overturn a decision that has stood for almost 40 years. The Hyde amendment is still in force which limits the use of federal funds for abortion.
Since 1973, Christians have increasingly been linked with right-wing politics (and sometimes extremism like the murder of abortion doctors). I believe this identity has damaged the cause of the gospel and led to labels like “right-wing Christian fundamentalist” which is never meant as a compliment.
However, we do need a Christian response consistent with Jesus’ example and His call to be known as his followers by our love. Jesus responded personally and compassionately to those caught in immorality and was silent about the practices of the Roman government of the time (crucifixion, feeding to the lions, etc.) which were hardly pro-life. So WWJD?
Does every pregnant woman know a church in her area that will help her through the decision and it’s life-long consequences? Does a teenager raped by an authority figure know where to turn if she is afraid to tell her parents? Are there well-know Christian agencies in every city to help arrange adoptions? Until we can be known by consistent and loving responses to the girl or woman in a very heart-rending predicament, I think we should stop the politically devisive rhetoric.
July 28, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Justme
Pat, I am in full agreement with you about this not being a political issue; the separation between church and state should not involve topics like this. Everyone knows many politicians are corrupt and do not care what their constituencies want, only how to gather more money and climb the “food chain”. Church and state need to remain separate; a good example of church IN state is the Taliban. Even if Christianity was ingrained, it would not suit all Christians in the way it was carried out, I’m sure.
I also agree with the fact that Christians have to stop judging others by their perceived sins (and by that, I mean Christians use different yardsticks to judge sin – I do not see abortion as murder, others do; some think women wearing slacks to church is sinful, others don’t, etc. – there is far too much judgment). God and Christ saw all of our sins and loved us anyway, why can’t we as His children do the same? It is no mark of Christ to love those we agree with, it is in loving those we don’t agree with that makes us His.
David, your example fails in that the term fetus in question would normally be able to draw breath on its own outside the womb even if a bit early and therefore should live. My “nephesh ki” belief is my sincere faith, not an attempt to use puffery or deceit; I am engaging intelligent people on a hot topic and I would think that logical, polite counterpoint would be appreciated. Exodus 21:22 is also part of my reasoning (death for death not carried out, but money accepted instead). I think the fact that God chose to differentiate the phrases in Hebrew is deliberate. God is purposeful in all He does, and there are many phrases in the languages closest to the original that provide enlightenment when people look at them.
Most of what Planned Parenthood does is NOT abortion – they are also a center for health care for poor women, such as PAP tests to prevent cancer. Abortions are only 3% of their total function. Is it right to deny affordable health care to the lower incomed people?
I don’t believe in overpopulation either. The seas are being dangerously overfished to levels that may not be recoverable, the fruits and vegetables are being Frankencloned so even God wouldn’t recognize them anymore, and those genetically modified creations are being sprayed with countless pesticides to keep yields high enough to support us – and cause cancers, and brain damage to fetuses. More people will make things even worse. I believe in large families when they can be comfortably and responsibly cared for. You have to have a license for a dog or to drive a car, why not to have a child? Every child should be wanted, and many are not. It is better to not have the child at all than to raise one with abuse, degradation or worse from an uncaring, unfit parent.
July 28, 2011 at 9:15 pm
David Housholder
If it’s only three percent, whey can’t they let it go rather than force us to give tax money to something we cannot more vehemently disagree with? And there are tens of millions of us who feel this way. I pay taxes for things we as a nation, in consensus, agree to. There is no consensus on abortion. Thus it should not be funded by tax money. PParenthood has a choice: stop the abortions or lose federal funding.
And “more people will make things worse.” Sorry, but too cynical. People are an asset. People are not a liability. People solve more problems than they make. If you believe that we put the creation in the red, then less people (no matter how many there are) will always be better. I disagree.
Help me with the ending of an unborn baby’s life and wearing slacks in church. Surely you don’t see a moral equivalent.
PS: I can sight read the Hebrew Bible (enough to hang out with Rabbis in Galilee without English) and you and I both know you are stretching it. Sorry. Just a linguistic fact. Jews are generally more pro-life than Christians, because they see human life as an amazing asset. Procreation is a duty for Orthodox Jews.
I agree with them. Humans are an asset.
July 28, 2011 at 9:18 pm
David Housholder
Separation of church and state?
So we can’t bring our deepest convictions into the public sphere?
Only secular opinions really count?
Tell that to Martin Luther King. Tell that to those who ended slavery singing “Battle Hymn.”
July 28, 2011 at 9:44 am
Michelle
I have a question…
What if every man treated woman like they were valued? What if every father treated thier sons the same? What if we BELIEVED that the same covering we had from our fathers here on earth was a mirror image of our father in heaven? What a different world this would be if we just believed that every life has value.
Jesus greatest commandment, Matthew 22:37-39
New International Version 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Good IN good OUT. Bad IN bad OUT. What are our nations diets?
I was blessed that I KNEW in my heart that life had value when I found myself pregnant at age 17 by an abusive boyfriend. Even though those around me called out “Abortion!” I had a strong resolve that the life within me wasn’t mine to take and the “choice” of abortion never even crossed my mind. Thank God I didn’t even see my daughter as anything else but life, but I had a grandmother that loved, nurtured and valued me when others did not. I got Jesus through her example, but it never filled the hole in my heart that my daddy couldn’t fill, this was his “choice.”
So you see, we all have a “choice” to bring life or death into those we are told to love as ourselves. We as parents and grandparents as well as men and women of God are called to bring LIFE!! I’m afraid we have created spirits of death in eachother instead of the love and value God intended. Choose LIFE!!
July 28, 2011 at 2:40 pm
chris
God bless you Megan for your courage!
July 28, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Michael
Abortion is the consequence of a greater ill/evil. We made it the core but it is simply the results of other immoral acts. The reason the church has been hard on the issue as murder is because it is soft on the issue of adultery and fornication. The worlds sin is abortion but the churches sin is sexual…the battle we have been most vulnerable to as the people of God since Canaan. The church not the mayor holds the keys to the city/earth. We have failed to uphold the covenant of marriage, we have allowed people to marry in the church and divorce in the courts and the consequence is a fatherless society full of working moms. Whereas we use to adopt children we now adopt parents called day care workers. Abortion? I think we need to back up the train and deal with the roots of such a surface issue. The prophet said if you forget Gods laws he would forget your children. Which comes first the chicken or the egg? Sexual immorality or abortion? We have been duped into focusing on the violence of abortion/murder rather than the pleasure of sex as adultery and fornication.
July 28, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Dexter
David,
I have a very unique perspective on this subject (Christian security guard at a Planned Parenthood) and so I thought I would share my thoughts on this one. Working at the clinic has been one of the most difficult experiences for me in terms of emotions. On a daily basis, I have to withhold my feelings on the subject while performing security checks and escorts. It has not been easy to watch what I watch on a daily basis. Relativism is especially rampant here and is of particular annoyance to me. To get more specific about what I want to address, I want to mentioned what I see from protesters. One thing that I have noticed, and is of my concern while working, is the interaction between protesters and clinic patients.
While I wholeheartedly agree with the your stance, I do think the way you voice your disapproval is crucial to how you affect the people getting abortions. The ONLY way that I’ve seen any patients ever positively interact with protesters has been when the protester seems to genuinely care about the person. I see way too many hate-filled rants and judgments on a daily basis and I can say I am disappointed with more than a few Christians. To love and not pass judgment on these people is paramount; and more importantly it is what we are called to do as Christians.
I could honestly write pages and pages with experiences related to this issue; I actually hope to write some semblance of a book on my experiences there someday. In the meantime, I would just like to encourage those who want to voice their disapproval to do so with love. As you mentioned, the last thing a scared pregnant woman need is to be told she will be condemned or sent to hell; this goes a long way in pushing her away from the real message of Christianity. Don’t let your frustration get in the way of the love of Christ.
Dex (pseudonym for now)
July 28, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Dexter
I apologize for the spelling errors and grammar!
July 28, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Megan
Dex~ Interesting perspective you have- that is for sure. I imagine it is like being a fly on the wall in a way. As I mentioned above- I was neither enlightened nor discouraged from my “choice” by the “well-meaning” protesters as I went in for my abortion. I knew that what I was doing was wrong- and honestly- if someone would have had REAL answers for me instead of gross pictures and nasty words- I may have had a slice of hope. As it was, I just saw myself as a hopelessly selfish person doing a hopelessly selfish act… and no real way to get out of it except to cop-out. I am not proud of my youthful beligerance- but it is the sad truth. I know better now… but that won’t bring my baby back to life. I am thankful that the Lord forgives and that I am healed from any guilt associated with my “choice”. It is a silly word, if you ask me (choice).
Anyways- I pray for the Lord to open up opportunities for you to speak into these ladies lives in a way which might losen the tough exterior, or break the heart of the proud… and maybe even give them a reason to push pause on what they are about to do…
July 29, 2011 at 3:21 am
Justme
David, why do you insist on distorting my metaphors? My point with slacks in church is that not all Christians believe ALL things equally, and I know you would have to agree with that. Church of Latter Day Saints and Roman Catholics also believe it is a duty to procreate, and I as a Christian do not (I believe it was God giving a blessing, not a mandate). Latter Day Saints also think Christ visited North America, and I do not. Baptists believe in immersion for receipt of holy spirit, many do not. Pentecostals believe in speaking in tongues, many do not. The point is church WITHIN state would result in one set of rules that everyone would not agree on; you think your tax money pays for things you don’t approve of now? What if someone of another faith – or non-faith – got into office and mandated THEIR religion on everyone? I DO believe that people should act on their MORAL convictions, WHEREVER they are, in a non-violent manner, and enough pressure from the outside will drive the change. Martin Luther King Jr. was not a politician, he was a minister. The people wanting women to vote were not politicians either, they were women with strong convictions. The people harboring slaves were not politicians (well a few may have been), they were people who respected the slaves as humans and didn’t care otherwise. I support that, and understand your position (even if I completely disagree with that particular aspect), even as I support what I believe God wants me to do as well in my daily life. Even Christ was condemned for not making political changes as his disciples wanted him to, because earthly law or politics is of no significance in the bigger scope of salvation.
As far as Hebrew, you have a far better comprehension of the language than I do, overall, I will not doubt that. But I do insist that I am not “stretching it”, that is the understanding I take away from it. Orthodox Jews also believe that eating pork and shrimp, cutting facial hair and getting tattoos are a sin and I do not (although I believe God gave those rules to the people in the wilderness to serve their purposes to prevent disease), and they also do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, so they are not right in everything either. No man other than Christ had perfect understanding of God’s book and to assert otherwise is foolhardy.
People are a good thing, but there is such a thing as too little supply for too many. The planet is nearing SEVEN BILLION people on it and I believe in good stewardship of what we have, not pressing things over their limit by having unlimited children simply because people blindly believe we will always have enough. Sure people invent good things to make more food, but at what health cost? Global warming, bacterial resistance, cancer deaths, polluted water are all happening due to the “good things” people have invented. I want a good quality of life for everyone, and the strain on resources to support all these people affects everyone; people are already dying – children as well – because they do not have enough food or water in their area, or they have diseases that spread rapidly through a population because they do not have medicine. I do believe that the mind of man is wondrous and I value life – I value it so much that I think each one should be properly and reverently cared for when it is CHOSEN, not just cranked out like a factory product. Good contraception is a necessity.
July 30, 2011 at 11:00 pm
David Housholder
I would agree with that. I wait outside the clinics. Never block anyone’s path (I’m a big guy and I don’t want to be intimidating). Speak with an understated tone. Simply ask: “Bless you. If you had another option; people to take care of you, would you take it?” A third of them burst into tears and say yes. We do take care of them, for months on end. Many (as you have seen, Dex) are manhandled by their “men” who insist on them getting abortions. I occasionally will say something very firm to these “men,” especially if they have a heavy grip on the woman and are “dragging” her in. It is SO hard to watch. I would be willing to go to jail by assaulting any man in this situation that I think is forcing/harming a woman and not stopping after I speak up. Not on my watch.
July 29, 2011 at 4:11 am
Dexter
I would like to mention that my comments were not directed at David, but rather at protesters in general. The way I wrote my comment was a bit confusing, sorry.
One other perspective I wanted to share on this subject is that of the current PParenthood money situation. I will not give any specifics in terms of numbers but I can say that in my state, something around half a dozen clinics have been closed due to financial hardships. At my own location, layoffs are rampant. I don’t know if the national climate for PParenthood is like this but it has been rough waters for them financially in my state. I would assume something is up or this wouldn’t be the case. No, I am not in Indiana.
Justme, I wanted to address one of your comments, “Most of what Planned Parenthood does is NOT abortion – they are also a center for health care for poor women, such as PAP tests to prevent cancer. Abortions are only 3% of their total function.” This is partly true; PP does perform more services for women than just abortion however, why do you seem to assume that this is the only place they can do these other things? The policy imposed in IN recently was directed at PP, not the services themselves. There are many other places women can go to get these things done so let’s no pretend these services become unavailable just because PP gets their budget cut. They are a business for profit and to think otherwise would be in err. Additionally, these other services may be more common at some locations but at mine, they are secondary. At least a dozen (that’s the bottom) women on a daily basis come in for an abortion while a handful come in for other services. If the length of time they spend at the clinic is not evidence enough to me, the uncontrollable sobbing upon exit is usually a pretty good indication of what they are their for.
“I also agree with the fact that Christians have to stop judging others by their perceived sins (and by that, I mean Christians use different yardsticks to judge sin – I do not see abortion as murder, others do”.
What exactly do you see it as then? How is an act of hopeless desperation anything but tragic? It seems by some of your comments that you may see it as population control and if not, just what are you trying to say?
As I mentioned previously, I work at a PP so I have a firsthand look at the reality of what goes on there. I like to hear what outside voices have to say because now I realize that being at one of the clinics is very different from just having opinions about it. Watching women come in shaking because of nervousness, seeing that ashamed/scared look on their face as they enter, and watching them sob as they leave is something that gives you a different impression. I could give many more examples of why its hard to argue for abortion after working at a clinic, but I’ll leave it at that.
Dex
July 29, 2011 at 4:51 am
Patti Smith
JustMe: Please read Romans 1:18 -25 and Isaiah 49:
Luke 1: 41-42
As to the licensing of parents to have a child. Do you really want the goverment telling you you can or can not have a child? I don’t want my government regulating me to that point. I don’t want them to tell me where to get medical treatment, and I don’t want my government funding abortions. Im not after closing abortion clinics so much as praying that God enlightens and changes a mother’s heart toward her child. Who is a person before birth, who has a soul at conception, who is NOT a fetus (medical term) or a potential human being, but a human being who God has formed and given a Name. Until every mother has the realization that she is carrying a human being and until every mother cherishes life and knows that all life is sacred, then there will be abortion clinics open for business.
July 29, 2011 at 4:53 am
Patti Smith
Dexter, you work at PP but yet oppose abortion – how do you reconcile that?
July 29, 2011 at 8:25 am
Dex
Reconcile what? I don’t add to their cause by doing my job. I work for a separate security company that is contracted out by PP. I ensure that people are safe and nothing more. People have a right to be safe.
July 30, 2011 at 11:05 pm
David Housholder
“A person’s a person, no matter how small.”
-Dr Seuss (Horton Hears a Who)
August 1, 2011 at 7:19 am
Lori Willey
I have been doing a lot of research about breath in prayer, blessing and worship. God moves powerfully in the exhale. During a prayer on two different times I had a vision of the Holy Spirit. As scripture pointed as Jesus was baptized that the Holy Spirit decended like a dove. The key point was “like a dove.” Like a dove, but NOT a dove. I was born and raised in Minnesota. I can’t stand the cold and I have asked God so many times why He had me here. When I saw the Holy Spirit I instantly recognized it as breath! It was like what we see on a cold day when our breath comes out of us. The Holy Spirit did not fade or lessen as our breath does. It moved like flight, it reached and retracted and had 7 places that could be shaped to make one think it looks like a dove. What could be thought of as a “head” which seemed to lead and all of it was perfectly white. People in warm climates, along the Jordan, would not know what breath looked like.
I began research on breath and the exhale even as God did as He breathed into man, the one difference in an inhale and exhale of its make up of air is that the exhale has water! I began seeing water from beginning to end in the Bible. God’s presence in the clouds, speaking from the clouds, Jesus being taken into the clouds, His side pierced on the cross and water poured out. Jesus saying, “Receive My Spirit”, and then He breathed on the disciples,Baptisms, Mikvehs, His voice sounding like the rushing of mighty waters. The exhale of God, the LIVING WATER. Birth when the waters break. I searched amniotic fluid. I knew that babies begin to practice working their lungs taking in the amniotic fluid. After 12 days from conception, before mom even knows she’s pregnant, the baby is incased in pure water/amniotic fluid from the source of its mother. As the baby grows the fluid begins to have parts from the child itself mixed within it like cells and urine.
We are mostly made of water. Our lungs are almost all water and filter the earth’s air which is then made into oxygen to feed the blood. Our brain’s are mostly water. Our thoughts afloat from the river of life. It goes on and on. As one person commented on the breath of life and used the Hebrew word nephesh-ki, the root meaning is Spirit, Soul, Breath. Our birth is the breaking of waters that held us in a perfect creation until we are born into an imperfect world. We are alive and held in the waters from His creation, His very breath. When we are born our percentage of water is the highest. The older we get, the less we have, that is why we wrinkle. We are the only creation that cries tears. Water and salt and God keeps them in a bottle. We are also called, “the salt of the earth.” There is a lot here. Isaiah 55:1 “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters.” Bless you.
October 13, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Ann O'Barr
One of the things I’m only beginning to put in perspective is the number of girl babies aborted as opposed to boy babies, especially in countries like China and India. Someone suggested that those favoring abortion are, in a sense, working for the demise of their own kind. Ann Gaylia