“I am tired of living among people who hate peace.” -Psalm 120:6
Apparently, an eccentric person wants to promote Koran burning this week.
What are your thoughts on this?
Not, “Does he have a right to do this?”
But rather, “Is it a good idea?”
We seem, as a society, to have a hard time separating those questions.
I would like to suggest that it has more to do with creating and cultivating a culture of respect.
Burning flags is a bad idea. Burning books is a bad idea. Building a new $100 million Islamic center a stone’s throw from Ground Zero is a bad idea.
It has to do with respect, dignity and common sense.
So how do we cultivate a respect-based culture without losing our civil liberties and freedom of speech and expression?
It’s your voice I want to hear on this blog. Please share your thoughts.
25 comments
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September 8, 2010 at 8:07 am
Jeremy Hoover
Good question, David. imo, it’s a bad idea, if for no other reason than it does not extend the generosity and grace of Jesus to those who are intended to be affected. As Christians, we need to model a “higher” behavior for the sake of the one we follow.
September 8, 2010 at 8:08 am
Steven Buehler
To quote St. Paul: Everything is lawful, but not everything is beneficial.
September 8, 2010 at 8:39 am
David Housholder
Paul rocks.
September 8, 2010 at 8:15 am
Terry W Branham
Dave, I think many Christians are offended by all the ‘respect for Muslims to be a one way street. We respect them and they look upon us as Infidels and they don’t even allow a Bible to be brought into their nations nor can Christians worship without fear of being murdered by fanatics who are protected by Sharia law. Our government currently pays the highest respect to Islamic leaders and bows to them literally and figuratively with no request for respect for the foundation of our nation as a nation Under God – Our God – and with Freedom of Religion.
September 8, 2010 at 8:44 am
David Housholder
Assuming that it is often a one way street, what should we (of any faith), who are more enlightened, then do?
What is our best response?
September 8, 2010 at 8:54 am
Jeremy Hoover
Perhaps “turn the other cheek”? (i.e., live under the ridicule and lack of fairness from others for the sake of living out our gospel imperative)
September 8, 2010 at 8:58 am
Julie
David, great questions and discussion here!! How do lawmakers get off saying that Muslim laws are worth upholding or defending but not Christianity or Judaism? Respect is a two-way street… constructing a mosque at Ground Zero hardly honors the memory of 3,000 lives lost at the hands of Muslim Americans. Christians already feel persecuted due to the entire argument about separation of church and state, and our schools are suffering from a long line of poor decisions to exclude God from the classroom. Burning the flag to show contempt for the adoptive country seems less than respectful as well. About all we can do, as responsible Christians, is to express where we stand on these matters to our lawmakers and pray that our voices are taken seriously by our government. It is the only approach that works. We will also be voting our consciences in November, after which I expect massive changes in personnel to occur.
September 8, 2010 at 10:14 am
Norton Lawellin
My father always said that if you want to sell Fords, tell ‘em why a Ford is good, NOT why a Chevy is bad. You won’t have respect if all you do is dis the other side. Therefore, tell people why Jesus is the best answer and love them to death. Let your light so shine…
Burning books only makes the book more popular. Burning evil rock ‘n roll records only made us curious enough to buy underground copies, to see what all the fuss was about. As a Christian community, burning the Koran would be a negative-energy hiccup, allowing anger to divert us from the primary mission. When the disciples asked for a sign, a logo, Jesus answered, “They’ll know you (are Christians) by your love.”
September 8, 2010 at 11:41 am
Tony Whittaker
Apart from the excruciatingly poor testimony that this presents, it is all but certain that many MBBs (Muslim Background Believers) in the muslim world, as well as mission staff, ex-pats, and military, will be murdered if this goes ahead. In UK, we would surely arrest him for ‘behavior likely to cause a breach of the peace’ and confiscate his korans. I just hope there are laws in Florida that can do something similar.
Blessings
Tony
September 8, 2010 at 11:50 am
Carole Ryan
I totally agree with your blog. None of these things is a “good idea”. When people use freedom as a weapon, everybody loses!
September 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Jeff Krogstad
Dave,
I have lots of thoughts but none as articulate as the comment of a friend of mine who is currently studying in Singapore. I quote her at length:
“If Terry Jones wants to endanger himself and his church (which he is certainly doing) then that is his business and his choice. However, he does not have the right to endanger the lives, livelihood and well-being of Christian families, workers and children worldwide who tenuously cohabitate neighborhoods and cities with their muslim neighbors. Already this month has seen violence in Indonesia against churches and their members; already tensions are high. Such an act by one man in the world spotlight of America could cost men, women and children their lives.
Often America and Americans do not realize the influence we have worldwide. But this is a situation where we cannot afford to ignore it. My classmates here at seminary whose churches and families often live side by side with muslim neighbors are aware and are afraid.”Can’t the government stop him from doing it?” a classmate asked me, “I am so afraid of what will happen.”
So, on their behalf I appeal to Terry Jones: do not endanger your brothers and sisters, my classmates, my friends, their families and churches, with this well-meant but foolhardy act. The impact may have consequences you do not want to answer for before the throne of your God.”
Yet another reason NOT to do this foolish thing.
Jeff
September 8, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Pat Gilbert
Those who spread the Christian faith throughout the known western world in one generation did not do so by burning Roman literature. They did not enjoy freedom of religion. They were imprisoned, burned at the stake, or crucified. But they changed the world by focusing on what Jesus told them to do. It’s time for the church in the U.S. to get focused on what matters.
September 8, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Randy Wawrzyniak-Fry
As I’ve said on other posts, there is great value to symbols and there is also great risk. I love what our flag stands for and I treasure my Bible. If they are burned in front of me what do I really lose. My country remains intact, in fact you might argue that it is made stronger by allowing the act. My faith is not destroyed by burning my Bible. God’s word is not destroyed. the only thing destoryed are the years of notes (including some from a great sermon series on the Psalms), but I can get another Bible.
If I put all of my emotions into a flag or a book then I am guilty of idolatry. Do I think that burning flags, books, and other symbols is a good idea. Not really (although a lot of alters to Baal and Ashera poles were destroyed) because attacking another’s symbol (TO striking a pose on the Dallas star) is delibertly hurtful and I think there are better ways to spend my time.
Bottom line – burning books (especially in the electronic age) is dumb.
September 8, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Allen
I think Americans want all to have the freedom of expression. However, expressing one’s opinion in a destructive manner cannot be the acceptable standard. Whether it’s a flag, a book, a building, a church, an abortion clinic, etc., expressing one’s displeasure in a violent way should never be an accepted practice in a democratic society.
As Christians, our roots come from the thought process that demands all people be accepted in the eyes of the Lord. Over the past 2000 years, Christians have used various means to ensure their circumstances allows them the right to worship Jesus. Sometimes these means have included violence. This leads to a challenge for today’s Christians whether these past actions should be condemned or celebrated.
I personally believe the Islamic building near Ground Zero is a red herring in regards to the topic of violence. Although one could argue that any of these violent acts, which results in ashes, can be the lightning rod for bigger and better things.
I think the questions that you’re asking need to be viewed in the circumstance/substance frame of view. When someone reaches a point where they believe they need to act in a violent way in order for them to feel substantially satisfied by their lashing out, from what perspective is the correct one to truthfully state that their actions don’t justify the means. One person’s substance may be viewed by another as just one’s circumstance.
Both your blog-entry pictures are from societies where democracy is not the norm. Most folks long for greener pastures. When Christians/Americans see pastures that are barren, but could be green, are there any limitations on Christians/Americans to facilitate the concept of an abundant life for all…
September 8, 2010 at 9:36 pm
David Lund
Problem with this is that people will die because of it. Particularly people in our country’s uniform, but others as well. This buffoon seems not to care.
He knew he would get media attention, though, and put his tiny church on the map. Such a pathetic mix of disorders. The MSM is also to blame because they give this nut so much air time. They have a selfish motive, too– make the conservatives look like intolerant kooks. Same result, however– dead Americans.
Other people’s children, parents and spouses can die because of my self-centered preening. I don’t care. That’s what we’ve created in this culture.
Kind of reminds me of the antics of the wacky left who also don’t care about the consequences of their actions for others, only about making their splash and feeling all self-congratulatory about it.
September 9, 2010 at 3:46 am
Diane Roth
It seems to me that really living our faith would be doing the right thing, even though the respect is not a two-way street right now. As a former missionary, part of my work was to speak of the grace of God. another part was to live it. I don’t expect Muslims to live it if they don’t know it (yet).
By the way, having just read (again) the vision of the Islamic Center (as well as some of the other projects going in near ground-zero), I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a bad idea. respectfully disagreeing, of course.
September 9, 2010 at 8:07 am
Jolene Anderson
What a giant step back in time this causes. Our country was founded on religious freedom among all the other freedoms we enjoy & abuse. What happened to respect & common sense? I feel many of our freedoms have come too easily for the very people who abuse them. The sacrifices made for these rights were made in respect of fellow countrymen & other nations that we have helped along the way. Koran(any religious book) or flag burning of any type is extremely disrespectful; an abuse of a freedom that many abusers have not fought for. Ask a veteran or active soldier what they think. We tend to take these blessings we call freedoms for granted & cultivate them to our own purpose, losing sight of their original intent. Koran burning, mosque near ground zero & flag burning all severe acts of disrespect; tragedy of 9-11…demonic. We cannot afford the the internal upheaval of our own private “jihad” within our country.
September 9, 2010 at 10:56 am
JS Boegl
“The only burning I want around my church is the baptism of the Spirit & fire- glory to God!
An occasional barbecue would be nice too.” (Stuart Greaves – Director of NightWatch IHOP-KC)
September 10, 2010 at 4:42 am
A Culture of Respect « Bruce Cole
[...] the whole post, click here. It’s worth your [...]
September 10, 2010 at 1:24 pm
brodie
I read as many of the responses as I could about the previous conversation about the mosque in NYC. I think both of these instances are great examples of people representing their faiths poorly. In both instances the intended outcomes of both proponents will cause much ill will and for no good reason. The Kingdom of God is not moved forward by the burning of Korans. Likewise, Islam does not grow because some choose to build a mosque close to one of the greatest attacks on US soil when it could be built a little further away.
Both groups CAN do what they want to do, but neither helps the cause of their respective religions. It seems to me that both proponents are operating on the basis of pride, anger, selfishness rather than peace. Bad representatives of Islam and Christianity.
September 11, 2010 at 7:02 am
Luke Allison
I have three thoughts: 1. If the press didn’t give so much attention to this joker, we wouldn’t have as much of an issue.
2. He should be beat with a sack of doorknobs
3. Why are we worried about death threats from a peaceful religion?
September 11, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Mark Gerisch
Burning flags, Bibles, throwing acid in the face of women, none of it is good in my mind. What bothers me is that there is not a world wide outrage to those things. Why should the Koran be any different? Freedom of speech is one thing, extreme actions and speech is something else. It seems extremism is justified only for a few.
September 11, 2010 at 5:29 pm
T Wolff
Yes, everyone has attacked this Pastor in Florida for wanting to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th. The Golden Rule, along with the requirement that Christians are to act with “gentleness and respect” in defending the faith (Titus 3:2), all point to this being a wrongheaded. But…
Really, should the President get involved in this? General Petraus? The Secretary of Defense. As well as every news and religous commentator around has attacked this Pastor for what he was planning to do. Doesn’t this seem as a huge over-reaction by all involved?
And why has no one brought up American helplessness about our response to what happened on 9/11/2001? Bin Laden has not been caught. Al Qaeda continues to cause terror in the world. I think the Pastor is merely expressing the feelings of many Americans that we lost the battle of 9/11, and he is trying to strike back in some small way. In this light, perhaps the Pastor was attempting to do what some Americans also wanted, but was quickly pounced upon by all religous relativists. Does this make sense?
September 11, 2010 at 6:21 pm
David Housholder
I for one, am very frustrated that the mastermind of 9-11 has not been brought to justice. Does not justify stupidity (burning a Koran) but I am amazed at all of the coverage on TV today and none of it about any plan to go get the guy.
We’ve spent bazillions and have blown up half of the Middle East but with 1.44 million active military personnel and 833,000 trained reserves, a dozen massive aircraft carriers and spy satellites that can read a license plate from space, we can’t find one guy? And they have $663.8 billion to spend this year alone to achieve our objectives.
Can only have one cause. Lack of leadership focus.
Think what you want about Reagan and Clinton and their politics (chances are you love one and make fun of the other), but they would have found him years ago. Reagan because it’s the right thing to do and he had a visceral sense of protection for America, and Clinton because he actual felt what America feels (remember Oklahoma City?); he would have picked up on the frustration. Notice that almost nobody messed with us during the 16 years these two were in office? Oh, and by the way, the economy prospered under both of them. People produce when they feel safe. The economy has never felt quite right since 9-11. We’re wobbly.
I’m wondering why Obama and Bush never put this on the front burner? They took and oath to preserve and protect. The man who devastated the heart of our largest city is still at large. That’s a failure to protect.
September 15, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Steve Verkouw
I’ve enjoyed finding this blog and reading the contributions to this discussion. Many of the thoughts expressed so far in different and thoughtful ways were still not too surprising, e.g. do unto others, book burning is disrespectful, why is the press making so much of this, building a mosque “near” (I wonder what is far enough away in this case, but no matter) ground zero is insensitive, the legal thing is not always the right thing, etc… These were some of the thoughts that came up many times.
But here’s what I miss in the discussion so far: some recognition that burning a book is a relatively peaceful thing to do. It does not hurt anyone physically; it is simply a very deliberate act of repudiating the words of the book in a public and symbolic way. It becomes an even more comprehensible act of free speech, rather than simply childish anger or tactless disrespect, when one articulates with actual words and explanations what one’s agenda in doing something so powerfully symbolic actually is. I think the kooky pastor’s major sin in this case was his failure to express clearly and concretely what he had in mind by threatening to put on this speech act, which allowed it to be interpreted as garden variety ignorance and bigotry. He was not at all clear (or at least I did not see it reported) about which of the words in the Koran he really found so offensive as to warrant its burning – and so his act of burning was understandably interpreted as a simple, wooden act of violent speech targeting anyone who “connects” with the Koran in any way. As such, I am very relieved he didn’t go through with it!
But I still can’t help thinking how much more interesting it would have been for him to have quoted some parts of the Koran that were truly offensive to him, or perhaps mis-understood. Then the imams of the world could have responded to his speech with some speech of their own. As it turned out, most of the “speech” that followed his threat turned out to be either very obvious platitudes about tolerance and respect, or plain old defenses of free speech, no matter how incendiary. But what we need is some actual dialogue about the Koran as a public religious document. How does it inspire the “religion of peace” that moderate Muslims claim for their version of Islam? Why do so many Muslims continue to use it as an inspiration for violence? How do Muslims actually construe their holy book? The Jewish and Christian Bible has been dissected (and many would say disrespected) in public for several centuries now, and rightfully so, as the stated inspiration for beliefs that nourish the roots of much of our public law and policy. There are a number of different understandings of how the bible ought to be read and understood as a document of public relevance, but they have all had to respond to questions that arise from public scrutiny by smart and inquisitive people.
So I guess the answer I’m suggesting to Dave’s initial question: “how do we cultivate a respect-based culture without losing our civil liberties and freedom of speech and expression?” in this context would be to respect the legally spoken free speech of anyone, including mosque builders and Koran burners, but in exchange for that respect, demand the virtues of clarity and accountability in their speech making and our responding.
It will be much easier for many Americans to support/tolerate/appreciate Muslims as fellow Americans when we can hear them supporting and interpreting their faith and its holy book in public. To those who show lack of understanding, and to those who mis-understand it, even disrespectfully, let them respond with some actual free speech of their own, instead of letting Islam continue to be represented most of the time in the media by the violent acts committed in its name and the public silence of most of its public teachers on the specifics contents of what they claim as the fundamental revelation of their God to the world.
Our family has hosted two Muslim boys as exchange students in our Lutheran parsonage whom we consider to be family in a deep sense of the word. The tragedy to me is that this incident failed to stimulate the kind of public discussion that would help to bind the diverse faiths of our national family in respectful support of our common life and freedom and our current struggle against those who would violently oppose it.